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‘Our constitution encourages graft, stealing’

By Yetunde Ayobami Ojo
26 July 2016   |   3:31 am
Any lawmaker that served for two terms would have acquired enough wealth that will last him and his family for a lifetime. For them to now propose that the Senate President and his deputy be granted life pension...
Mr. Debo Adeleke

Mr. Debo Adeleke

The charge against the leadership of the Senate, over allegation of forgery of House Rules is still generating divergent views. While some believe it is political, others think otherwise and insisted that nobody should be spared if the war against corruption, abuse of office and infraction must be won. In this interview by YETUNDE AYOBAMI OJO, a Lagos-based lawyer, Mr. Debo Adeleke endorsed the trial. He also spoke on the proposed pension for Senate leaders and the need to amend the constitution, saying it encourages corruption, among others.

What is your opinion on the alleged forgery charges against Senate President and his deputy?
This is the kind of political arrangement we have in this country. This is the only country that I can think of, even in Africa that the President of the Senate will be facing a corruption charge and will still be presiding and some people like Dino Melaye will still be following him and hailing him. When you are facing such allegations, you must step down from such position, else you are just rubbishing that position. When some of us travel abroad, we can’t even engage in political discussions because the foreigners find it surprising that a sitting Senate President, facing corruption charges is still presiding over the Senate. It is an insult to Nigerians! All along, we all know they are postponing their evil days. So, they should go to court and face their trials. The unholy alliance some of these APC members formed with PDP members brought him and his deputy as the President and deputy president respectively. But if you look at the process that brought them, it was never transparent and it is further insult to our collective intelligence in this country.

What is your take on the recent proposed life pension for the Senate President and his deputy. Do you think such is right at this time the country is going through economic problems?
Any lawmaker that served for two terms would have acquired enough wealth that will last him and his family for a lifetime. For them to now propose that the Senate President and his deputy be granted life pension, for the position they occupy out of personal ambition is uncalled for. Expecting Nigerians to now pay him for life is the most ‘callous’ thing anybody can think of. When you look at the amount senators are alleged to be taken home every month, which is over N20 million, you ask yourself what kind of thing are they doing at the chambers that warrants such amount. This is annoying and insulting to the collective intelligence of Nigerians as a whole.

Some are of opinion that if the President of Nigeria could be given life pension, the Senate President should also be entitled to such privilege since he is the leader of the lawmakers?
It is absurd for anyone to think like that and compare the two positions. The President of Nigeria was voted for by the whole country. The Senate President was chosen by his colleagues in the Senate. The idea of comparing both positions is absurd. The Senate President did not get there through the ballot box. He only contested as a senator representing a particular senatorial district. So, how could he compare himself with President of the country that was voted for?

Are you in support of the constitution amendment?
For us to be able to face our problems in this country headlong, we need to restructure this country or else we are wasting our time. Secondly, there is need to change this present constitution. There are some areas that needs to be re-evaluated in the constitution. Also the law enforcement agents need to be alert to their responsibilities. I think if they had been doing their work well, they would not have allowed most of the politicians to occupy public offices, because they know they have dirty backgrounds, but they are not doing their work. That is why we have them there. It is not their fault; it is because we have a constitution that supports looting. These politicians are shameless.

We have to do a proper orientation. Let’s have the peoples’ approved constitution that will be able to take care of all these areas and we will be proud of it. The constitution we are using now will not work, it was just to protect selfish interests of some politicians. If possible, we should go back to our old three regions. Some of us benefitted from that system in Western Region when Awolowo came up with free education. Some of us could not afford to go to secondary school. It was the ‘Modern Schools’ that the late Chief Awolowo established that most of us attended and it was highly subsidized. Today, we are all professionals in various disciplines. It was because the system was good and perfect then. However, we should not miss the opportunity of implementing the conference that was conducted in 2014 during Jonathan’s administration, which was assumed as the only good thing Jonathan did for this country. If you consider the calibre and pedigree of few people that participated, they understood the issues.

The outcome of the conference proffered solutions to the issue of resource control and the need for a weak central and empowering the regions among others national issues. The current arrangement whereby states are created for political reasons and at the end of the day, they cannot even afford to pay salaries and perform their primary roles, is annoying. Workers are being owed, yet some of the governors are still going about in private jets. All these need to stop. We should face reality and make sure we have people who are willing to serve the people, not those who want to steal money. Our constitution encourages corruption and stealing.

Are you saying legal system is the reason so many corruption cases involving top individuals lingers in court for years?
It is because we have a weak constitution and legal system. The Administration of Criminal Justice of Nigeria, 2015 addressed certain issues regarding these endless adjournments. But in spite of that, the legal system still accommodates lackadaisical ways of prosecuting people in courts. These people have money to employ the services of the best brains in the legal system. Rather than allow them to face their trials, the lawyers will be coming with different interlocutory injunctions leaving the substantive matters. The system encourages corruption. Many judges have not been paid for months in many states. So if you have a judge who has a case involving a politician before him and the politician offers him N20 million, it will take a man of God and principle to turn down such offer. How will they feed their wives and family when their primary constituency has not paid them for several months?

The present national leadership of Nigerian Bar Association (NBA) will be rounding off in July ending. Do you think they have done well?
I have not seen anything extraordinary that they have done except the introduction of stamp for lawyers. You cannot file anything now without putting your stamp. It has eliminated the issue of fake lawyers. Apart from that, they have not done anything special.

They have not introduced any positive change in our system. It is just business as usual. Many of them went into that position because they want to boost their CVs not because they have anything special to offer. If you look at the NBA, Ikeja branch, and the kind of dynamics brought by the former Chairman, Onyekachi Ubani, you will see that those at the national level have not done anything. It is not an enviable thing at all. I agree with the idea of banning those who have held positions twice from contesting until after five years. It is good for them to give others chance to serve so they can also make a difference and contribute their quotas.

How was your growing up like?
I was never opportuned to have a formal education like others. I was born into poverty and grew up in abject poverty to the extent that poverty was my second name. I have never been to secondary school in my life. I went to modern school after which I went to the University. In those days we had the Ansarudeens, CAC and the Anglicans and we related together but now, such is no longer the case. I attended Apostolic Modern School in Modakeke, Osun State. I went to teachers training and got the best student award in my set.

After I finished at the University of Ife, I was retained for lecturing. When I joined Chief Gani Fawehinmi chambers, he encouraged me to study law. After that, one way or another, I was involved in the Gideon Orkar’s coup as the Director of legal services of about six companies owned by the Chief Great Ogboru. We fled when the coup failed and later returned to continue with legal practice.

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