‘Nigeria should address agitations that can lead to referendum’

Ambassador Olusola Sanu, a Harvard University-trained economist, is one of Nigeira’s second set of envoys. He was Chief Protocol Officer to Abubakar Tafawa Balewa, Aguyi-Ironsi and Yakubu Gowon. He started his Foreign Service career in the United States and was first posted to Ethiopia; he became the country’s first Ambassador to China and Australia and was instrumental to forging Africa and the Caribbean countries’ economic relations with the European Union. Now in retirement, Sanu recently came out with his autobiography, Audacity on the Bound. In this interview with ANOTE AJELUOROU, he spoke on sundry issues including the implication of Brexit for the corporate existence of Nigeria.

You prescribed in your book that to restructure Nigeria, we should go back to the 1963 Constitution in line with a confederation like you found during your many postings as Ambassador. Is that really the way we should go?
Well, this is the way I think because I just thought totally overhauling the 1963 constitution is a waste of money because what is happening now is that people feel we have virtually tied ourselves with a rope. People feel the little freedom we had has been taken from us. The West Region had a flag; they had an anthem and the head of government. When he comes to the Western Region, he is received very well. And my own experience is that wherever I went, whether Brazil or Australia, people have this feeling of a certain sovereignty, a certain liberty for them to do whatever they want; that is the way to go.

So, I thought that restructuring is inevitable if you want one Nigeria because agitation for a bit of liberty will continue. The West has been harping on the fact that they would want to have their regional system. The people fighting, Niger Delta Avengers or whatever their name, is because they think that the revenue allocation is skewed and I said it is a great mistake not to use the same revenue allocation of 50 per cent for the owners of the resources because whatever development you have had is because of that revenue allocation either from the East or North or anywhere.

I find that in all the countries I went, particularly Australia, they actually call their states Sovereign States of North South Wales, Sovereign State of Victoria, etc, and they still like to be Australians. So they don’t want to break away. So I am surprised that people are so afraid of any decentralisation. So the agitation for it will continue.

Don’t you think it is too late for the Biafrans and Niger Delta Avengers who it seems would rather go their separate ways?
So, I said that I’m probably the only one who is not surprised because the leaders kept Biafra alive in the minds of the youths. If the youths are manifesting these things it is because they had supporters; they have people who support their agitation.

I said the best thing is not to use strong-arm politics because what will happen is that they will go back to the propaganda method they used during the civil war and they will get supporters abroad. So I said, don’t try to force them; it is the fault of their elders because when World War II ended and Germany and Japan were defeated, what their own leaders did was to begin an intensive education of their youths to forget the Nazi philosophy. We didn’t do that here.

So, I think we didn’t do enough education of the youths. If we did they would not think that it is an easy task. What you are saying is close to what I thought when the United Kingdom broke away from the European Union. Instead of concentrating on what is its effect on us will be – we have had so much with Britain, and we should have concentrated on what its effects on the minorities will be. You know the whole question of referendum that got Britain out of it. It is referendum exit that I am afraid of because it could give an impetus to Biafra, and all the minorities to say, ‘ah, if Scotland can go, can agitate for a referendum, why shouldn’t we?’

Why are the Avengers talking of referendum? What do they know about it? They didn’t know anything about it before the British exit or Brexit. I think that is what we should be concentrating on, not on the effect on our trade and things like that. Those things can be easily taken care of by the policies we make; fiscal and monetary policies will decide the amount of investments which we have.

So, we should concentrate or try to quell the agitation which is the outcome of the referendum. That is our major problem.

Talking about referendum, do you think that Brexit happening at this time is a good idea?
It is the worst idea for us and Britain. This is what, as I said, we should concentrate on because it is already having effect on Nigerians who have been in Britain for ages; xenophobic tendencies have risen up. The Polish who were born in Britain are endangered. People are already writing things on the wall – Polish people go home!

It will affect us. So our concentration should not be on the trade because we have always had trade, because we are the second largest importer and exporter to Britain apart from South Africa. They cannot do without us. There is no question about that.

What is the implication of Brexit for Nigeria?
The greatest effect on Nigeria is the outcome of the referendum and how do we protect our citizens who are still there? A lot of them went with forged passports, have overstayed, all sorts of things. They are there in their thousands. So, it is not the trade; we have always had a trade agreement and we will.

Nigeria has signed some conventions with the European Union. What happens to those conventions? Will there be renegotiation?
Now you are talking about what I am saying that it is not the trade. I was chairman that led the Lome Convention. Pius Okigbo started our trade agreement with Britain. When I got to Britain, I took over from him and continued. We had a Lome Convention, which still exists until we outlive that convention, which will not be before two years; our trade with Britain will continue. So there is no need to panic. Not now if you read the last paragraph of chapter 11 of my book, which is on the Lome Convention.

I had written a personal letter to the Minister of Economic Planning in which I said there is no need to panic. Look at what we did in the Lome Convention. There is a subsisting agreement. That agreement will not expire until Britain actually leaves in two years’ time. So now, if I was the minister of the economy, I will call two institutions – the Commonwealth Meeting of Ambassadors and invite the ambassador, the High Commissioner of Britain to come and talk to them, tell them what is the effect of Britain’s exit. Will it allow us to continue with the Lome Convention or do we start our negotiations now?

I wrote to the Minister of Economic Planning then I wrote to the foreign minister and I said you are in charge of the Commonwealth, call the meeting of the Commonwealth ambassadors as a joint team, and ask the British Ambassador to come and talk to you. Let Nigeria know exactly what is going to happen. And once he says that ok, you have to negotiate a new agreement then you send a memorandum to government to give us permission to start the negotiation. I said the same thing, call ECOWAS Commissioners in Abuja and ask the representative of the European Union to come and talk to us – what is the effect on ECOWAS? Because the Lome Agreement contains the amount of money which they gave us for regional projects that cut across Francophone and Anglophone countries. Ask them whether with Brexit what will be the effect on English-speaking countries that are in ECOWAS? Would they exit with Britain or would they allow us to continue with a separate agreement with the rest of Africa? I wrote a letter on that.

Do you think Brexit will help the cause of calls for restructuring Nigeria?
We have discussed that. I am just saying that this is one of the dangerous effects of the exit of Britain. It gives impetus for the agitators. The only thing is how we handle the agitation. That is what I am saying. That we must not use strong arm to deal with them because they will get enough support from outside. The only reason why they don’t have support now is because they support Nigeria; so it is the referendum that we should be afraid of. Not only us but the whole of Europe. People in Spain, Catalonia and the rest, they are saying now that it is good for Britain why shouldn’t it be good for Spain? Belgium, the Walloons and the others. Belgium is a very small country. I served there and I know even from then anytime they want to form a government there are a lot of problems because there is a sleeping agitation there.

Brexit just gives a lot of impetus to agitators, including Nigerians. This is the main problem; we have no major economic problem because we have a subsisting agreement with Britain and that agreement will not expire until two years’ time. This is why the process of whether we should or should not call for a meeting with the ambassadors both to talk about our concerns on trade or our concern with regional projects.

Britain, for example, when we were joining the Lome Convention, we had to give up Commonwealth preferences because the French-speaking African countries believed that we would have an advantage over them if we keep the Commonwealth preferences. So we had to negotiate on trade afresh but we had to first of all give up the preferences. We need to ask Britain now; if they exit will they restore economic preferences which we had with them before? All these are things they should ask. In other words, we should find out the process and we should find out their own thinking. I said, write a memorandum to the Federal Executive Council asking permission to begin the discussion on this issue. Don’t worry about the trade agreement now because there is an agreement which cannot expire until Britain actually exits.

The government hasn’t been sitting still; it has done the Yuan/Naira swap deal. But do you think that it is good for our economy and how soon do you think this will take off?
Well, when it comes to China, it will help us with the trade with them specifically. It certainly will help us with the trade with China because it will mean that when you are appraising the type of help they give us, you won’t be using the dollar. They will agree with us that we can actually work out our needs both in yuan and in dollar. So for the trade with China, very good.
You should ask the central bank when it would start. I am here in this small corner and you are asking me when it will start (laughter).

As a Harvard University-trained economist, how do you assess Buhari’s government? What would you have him do differently to make things better economically?
When he started I was one of those who were very sceptical about the fact that he is a believer in the unity of Nigeria. I was like St. Paul, and I really believe in him now. That he is the man of the moment. Why? It is because of my education. Simple. When I went to Harvard it was the period in time when the whole of government in development of the people was emphasised. We were all Keynesians, we believe that you should put money in the system so that ordinary people will have a spending power. Roosevelt said, ‘Look, if it is necessary to start digging holes all over and pay people, just go ahead and do it. Give them money.’

I said I believe in that as far as giving economic power to the ordinary man and I said I would not have succeeded being a member of the National Assembly because they will throw me out of the conference because I will not be able to support anybody who does not advocate social security. I will not be able to support those who are not able to give unemployment compensation to people who are unemployed. So this is a result of my own education. And I see some of these things are being done. This is what I believe in. I wrote in my book on this same Lome Convention. I said instead of believing very much in the export of cocoa, I said if we had only succeeded in giving our students hot glass of chocolate drink throughout the whole of Western Region, we ourselves would have been able to consume a certain portion that we don’t lament anytime the price of cocoa is down. So you can imagine how happy I was when they said they were going to give free meals to students.
That hasn’t happened yet and there are those who think that it may never happen…

I think it will happen because Kaduna is doing it already but not because of Buhari, but because they want to invite almajiri and the rest of them to go back to school.

Osun State started the same policy but could not sustain it. They are having trouble paying salaries right now…
That is another matter. If they have money to implement it in principle because the multiplier effect on farmers would have been huge if they have money to implement it. People would have started going; they have a steady market. There are implications. People believe that it won’t work in the West. Why? Because they don’t trust the people that will implement it. They will highjack it; they will give people inferior food to eat and all that. But it doesn’t stop us from the principle of giving students one good meal a day.

You refer to the divine right of the Oba to govern wrong. Do you think that we can apply that to the Nigerian situation since it appears we have always had a problem of leadership?
Yes, it is because once our people reach leadership position they believe that their entitlement is a matter of right. How else can you explain some of the things that happen? Why should Balewa govern Nigeria with only one permanent secretary, no advisers and did so much work? Now there’s a chief of staff, deputy chief of staff, assistant to the deputy chief of staff; every governor’s office has almost 10 people who are catering to the needs of the governor. Information, he has his own spokesman, he can’t speak for himself except through his spokesman. And that goes on. Look at the huge amount of money they are spending on it. It is because they believe this is how people in my position should behave.

The Prime Minister of Great Britain when he is going out, he goes out with two people. Anytime a minister is going to open or they are going to cut a tape to open whatever project they have, do you know how many people follow the minister around? Ten people will follow him. If it is not divine right, what is it? It is because we just believe that that is how the leader should behave. We don’t even agitate about it; we just assume that this is it.

Would you say that Nigeria is working as a nation?
If it is working as a nation we won’t have all the problems we have now. The fact that we strangle ourselves with the type of constitution we have now and people don’t see a gateway; all the agitations we are having now is because of it. People are emphasising their own nationality; they can’t do anything without reference to it. So, Nigeria is a work in progress; we have not reached that place where we enjoy the facilities of being a Nigerian. But by and large, I don’t believe that we have reached nationhood.

Would you blame the colonialists who lumped the different nations together?
Of course, the problem started right from the beginning because at the amalgamation of Nigeria, the British were informed. The British knew that in those early days it was the West and South that were supporting the federation. But they said if the North were to survive, then there must be amalgamation. So everybody knew that a federation was necessary if they want to create the type of Nigeria they wanted. But they knew that the difficulties would be there.

This is more or less the same thing that obtains in most of Africa. Do you then think that Article three of the OAU/AU is still the way to go?
But we won’t have survived without it. The only reason why we didn’t have difficulty in the civil war is because we harped on the fact that Article three exists in the OAU charter, which enjoins everybody to respect the boundaries which the British left. That is why we have managed to remain what we are. As far back in those days, Libya’s Ghadafi had been making a lot of noise that Nigeria is too big. He didn’t hide it. Even in the OAU he was saying Nigeria is too big; he said it is better for the south and the north, the north which is Muslim should go and the south should go.

That is why the whole question of referendum becomes a dangerous thing for all of us because there are people who already have the mental attitude that Nigeria can’t work the way it is; and we had a lot of difficulty when we were negotiating the Lome Convention. They kept harping on the fact that we are too big and we would take all the resources for aid and assistance.