Chief Arthur Obi Okafor is a Senior Advocate of Nigeria (SAN). In this interview with LEO SOBECHI, he argues that it is wrong to hold judiciary as corrupt without looking at the society in general.

One year after a new administration that has anti-corruption fight as its major thrust has been at work, it seems the judiciary itself is on trial for not performing to expectation; do you believe so?

Certainly one cannot deny that fact. From what has been happening so far, you find that so much has been said about corruption in the judiciary, you can also see some senior advocates are now facing trial. Some judges have also been removed from their positions; so, you cannot deny the fact that the issue of corruption has not caught up with the judiciary. It has. And it would remain for some time to come. But I think the problem of this country is that we are looking at the surface of the problem, without getting to the root. Corruption is like a symptom. Whether it is a symptom of Nigeria not having grown from a country to what could be called a nation state, where somebody can proudly say, I am a Nigerian; where somebody cannot proudly say, he is a Nigerian he does not see anything wrong in assuming the posture that Nigeria is one large zoo where anything goes; where people behave the way they like, where it is the survival of the fittest. That is what we are witnessing today. And until we make effort to commit resources, time and energy into putting things down as they have to be done, corruption will remain with us no matter how hard we fight.

Is there evidence to that effect?

Yes, you can see the happenings in the country. We need a leader that will shape Nigeria as a country. Leaders that are willing to leave behind a nation state, build Nigeria as a country that we can bequeath to generations to come. The way we have it today, it is just like people coming into the country to do a job, they are not here to stay. Nigerians are mercenaries in their own country; their leaders have been like mercenaries in their own country, how do you expect corruption to die? Of recent, we are hearing of killer herdsmen, destruction of oil pipelines and you expect this country to grow and corruption to be wiped out. Who are these people destroying pipelines, are they not Nigerians? Who are those killing others, are they not Nigerians? It is, because they don’t believe in Nigeria that is why all those things are happening.

I am not saying we should stop fighting corruption, but you see, much effort should be committed to get people to realise that this is our country and we must build it up together. We must see ourselves first as Nigerians and do everything to make the country work. Are people paying their taxes? If you have tax collection points and agents to collect the taxes, those agents will even ask the people not to pay the taxes because they don’t believe in Nigeria. Who believes in the country? That is the point. As far as I am concerned, there is corruption in the judiciary; there is corruption in the executive no doubt about that. How many people believe in this country? We must have to go back to the drawing board. We have to get our young ones to have a good understanding that they have a future and that future is in their nation, Nigeria. We have to work extensively to develop a good curriculum where they can be taught about citizenship and nation building. As soon as we get our acts together, corruption would be stamped out of the country, people will find that there is no point taking money away from their country to stash it away in some foreign countries.

Some observers say part of the country’s problems is that none of the past heads of state; was a lawyer like Nelson Mandela to mould the country according to the rule of law…

I don’t think it was because they were not lawyers. I just think they were not philosophers that think far into the future; to lay a foundation to change the condition of the black man, not just in South Africa. You know some of these past leaders were talking about themselves; they were selfish. They were not interested in building up a nation. They were ethnic champions; they sent the pattern of dissent and disputations about who comes from where. So, if we must truly rise above it, there must be philosophers and idealists. Until we have it, the breaking of pipelines will stop. These things can be solved in one or two years.

You see; rule of law is just like democracy. These are civilised concepts that are operated in civilised nations. How do we operate democracy and the rule of law when there is no nation? You don’t have democracy when you don’t have institutions on ground. Democracy for whom? Democracy is a civilised system of government where people participate in the affairs of their nation. How does that happen if you don’t have a nation? Do people believe they have a nation before you talk about democracy and the rule of law; what law? I said people take the country as one large zoo where people do, as they like. There is law, people are being caught and sentenced to prison terms, but has it changed anything? Every day we are seeing new dimensions of crimes, new dimensions of vandalism; instead of improving, we are still going down. So, there is a point at which we have to pause and ask, are we really doing the right thing?

As a body, do you think the Nigeria Bar Association (NBA) has done enough in that direction?

I don’t think we have done enough, but we are doing something; we have not done enough. In the NBA, we are trying to see how we can get ourselves together without looking at where we are coming from, as ethnic background, and stand on ideas. But these things should be extrapolated into the Nigeria polity and not just the bar association, that is what the lawyers should do. A lawyer is like a priest. We are being looked upon in times of trouble, to give direction to the nation. For instance, if you talk about the billing of consumers in the energy sector, electricity tariff; who will have the money to go to court to say he is over billed? It is easy to find a singular individual that would complain of overbilling, but he does not have the resources to do so. But it is the NBA that should do so as a matter of urgency to take it up and redress these wrongs. They have the capacity; the ability and they have the resources to take the matter up on behalf of the downtrodden masses, to file an action. And say you cannot operate without having a metre so that people will know what you are doing. In any event, you are billing these people, they don’t have electricity in their home and you are sending bills every month.

The president once said that judiciary is part of his problem, what is your take on that?

I think so; but he should also understand that they are part of the country. They were not hued from outside the country. They belong in the system and you should not single them out as bad eggs in the society. My belief is that the corruption in the executive and legislative arm is far worse than we have in the judiciary. Why should they be talking of the judiciary as if it is in isolation, no, Nigeria is a sick country. It is not the judiciary per se; they are even doing their best in the circumstances without even being paid. If you go to the chambers of a judge you would weep. In fact, one of the judges in the Court of Appeal told me recently how he came out of his room to pick up something and saw a snake, he killed the snake. And on going back to his room there was a spark of electricity due to faulty wiring and the room was cut off. The point I’m making is that we are not talking about the welfare of judicial officers, how to make things comfortable for them to do their job. When you talk of a judiciary it is not what we have because there must be financial independence. You are not even giving the judges the facilities to work. So until we come back to look at these things holistically, it is not proper to single out judges and lawyers as the problem of this country. We have our shortcomings, but we are part of the society, as such if we want to solve the problem we solve it holistically.

In the area of fidelity of the electoral system, do you think the judiciary has lived up to expectations?

Judiciary does not make laws. When they talk of card readers, for instance, the Electoral Act did not say anything on it. And there was a problem, which the judges reviewed and said there was need to respect the contents of the Act. When you don’t make proper laws, or the laws are left for men that have not got the knowledge or out to make some money, they leave loopholes. The judges interpret the laws as they are. They expound the law and, not expanding beyond what it says. I agree that there should be some element of judicial activism, but you have to create dispositions to expound the law.

You once advocated for the adoption of the Kenya model to fight judicial corruption, why?

Conflicting judgments happen when a judge of the high court is not aware of a particular judgment of other judges of coordinate jurisdictions. But you find that some judges sometimes over-ride their judgments. So the Kenyan model is that when a judge is found to have delivered a ruling that was upturned based on law, it shows not corruption per se, but incompetence. A judge should be competent.